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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;It&#8217;s a metaphor, if you know what I mean&#8221;: DDC&#8217;s fundamental flaw</title>
	<atom:link href="http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/</link>
	<description>Palmer, CL. “Structures and strategies of interdisciplinary science.”  JASIS 50(3): 242-253, 1999</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-13438</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-13438</guid>
		<description>Hey Washtub, you should (constructively, where possible) complain about the inadequacies of your tools.

They all have issues, and multiple issues.  Anything and everything would/will have issues of some sort; esp. in a universal classification. But the ? is which limitations do we prefer?

Had another metaphor book today: Metaphor and continental philosophy : from Kant to Derrida / Clive Cazeaux.  Need to have me a look see at this one, actually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Washtub, you should (constructively, where possible) complain about the inadequacies of your tools.</p>
<p>They all have issues, and multiple issues.  Anything and everything would/will have issues of some sort; esp. in a universal classification. But the ? is which limitations do we prefer?</p>
<p>Had another metaphor book today: Metaphor and continental philosophy : from Kant to Derrida / Clive Cazeaux.  Need to have me a look see at this one, actually.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Hockenberry</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-13408</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Hockenberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-13408</guid>
		<description>I guess I shouldn&#039;t complain about sections for special topics in non-English literatures not getting A-Z treatments of special topics under LCC&#039;s purview -- DDC has to deal with criticisms like the lack of definition for &quot;metaphor.&quot;

I need to show the genocide/infanticide entries to my coworkers tomorrow...that&#039;s just precious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I shouldn&#8217;t complain about sections for special topics in non-English literatures not getting A-Z treatments of special topics under LCC&#8217;s purview &#8212; DDC has to deal with criticisms like the lack of definition for &#8220;metaphor.&#8221;</p>
<p>I need to show the genocide/infanticide entries to my coworkers tomorrow&#8230;that&#8217;s just precious.</p>
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		<title>By: Carnival of the Infosciences #84 &#171; The Other Librarian</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-13192</link>
		<dc:creator>Carnival of the Infosciences #84 &#171; The Other Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-13192</guid>
		<description>[...] Creech, the Eclectic Librarian sent in Mark Lindner&#8217;s article on DDC with this comment:  &#8220;I know it&#8217;s a little old, but I found it to be an interesting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Creech, the Eclectic Librarian sent in Mark Lindner&#8217;s article on DDC with this comment:  &#8220;I know it&#8217;s a little old, but I found it to be an interesting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-12704</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-12704</guid>
		<description>Wow. Just wow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Just wow.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-11395</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-11395</guid>
		<description>I did and do find it disturbing. Now I have no doubt that they&#039;ll argue that it is represented, and on one hand it is, but on the other it is almost entirely implicit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did and do find it disturbing. Now I have no doubt that they&#8217;ll argue that it is represented, and on one hand it is, but on the other it is almost entirely implicit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-10738</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-10738</guid>
		<description>This is...disturbing.  Metaphor is a HUGE topic in philosophy, literature, and linguistics.  Someone needs to write to the Dewey council and enlighten them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is&#8230;disturbing.  Metaphor is a HUGE topic in philosophy, literature, and linguistics.  Someone needs to write to the Dewey council and enlighten them.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-10353</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-10353</guid>
		<description>Right you are, Walt.  Which is why I wrote &quot;euphemistically.&quot; One can certainly discuss genocide (by whatever means) as population control, and on one hand, it &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt;. But on the other, it is much, much more. Both the term &quot;genocide&quot; and the phrase &quot;ethnic cleansing&quot; carry a &lt;em&gt;lot&lt;/em&gt; more ethical weight than does &quot;population control.&quot;

Look at all the waffling that went on as 100s of 1000s of people died in Rwanda because politicians worldwide were loathe to label what was going on with either of these terms. As soon as either term was applied they would immediately incur an ethical responsibility to intervene.

Sure, I was writing in a somewhat loose sense and not presenting the entire story, if you will. And I have no doubt that books have been written on genocide or ethnic cleansing from a pure standpoint of population control.  I&#039;ve also heard similar arguments for the Holocaust and many other tragedies; they all make my skin crawl.

So, I guess my point is not that DDC is conceptually wrong on this count; didn&#039;t claim that but I&#039;ll be specific now.  The point--which I standby--is that a whole lot more is missing if this were the only classificatory detail applied to any item on genocide.

And, yes, quite the straw man, or straw bib record, argument at the moment. Nonetheless, I think that if this is all one has to say about this concept then it is, at best, an amoral stand. Since I was not (nor am I) accusing DDC of having &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; this to say on the topic that is all I can accuse DDC of. But I will add that if that is all one had to say, that genocide and ethnic cleansing are simply a form of population control, then one has firmly moved into the unethical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right you are, Walt.  Which is why I wrote &#8220;euphemistically.&#8221; One can certainly discuss genocide (by whatever means) as population control, and on one hand, it <em>is</em>. But on the other, it is much, much more. Both the term &#8220;genocide&#8221; and the phrase &#8220;ethnic cleansing&#8221; carry a <em>lot</em> more ethical weight than does &#8220;population control.&#8221;</p>
<p>Look at all the waffling that went on as 100s of 1000s of people died in Rwanda because politicians worldwide were loathe to label what was going on with either of these terms. As soon as either term was applied they would immediately incur an ethical responsibility to intervene.</p>
<p>Sure, I was writing in a somewhat loose sense and not presenting the entire story, if you will. And I have no doubt that books have been written on genocide or ethnic cleansing from a pure standpoint of population control.  I&#8217;ve also heard similar arguments for the Holocaust and many other tragedies; they all make my skin crawl.</p>
<p>So, I guess my point is not that DDC is conceptually wrong on this count; didn&#8217;t claim that but I&#8217;ll be specific now.  The point&#8211;which I standby&#8211;is that a whole lot more is missing if this were the only classificatory detail applied to any item on genocide.</p>
<p>And, yes, quite the straw man, or straw bib record, argument at the moment. Nonetheless, I think that if this is all one has to say about this concept then it is, at best, an amoral stand. Since I was not (nor am I) accusing DDC of having <em>only</em> this to say on the topic that is all I can accuse DDC of. But I will add that if that is all one had to say, that genocide and ethnic cleansing are simply a form of population control, then one has firmly moved into the unethical.</p>
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		<title>By: walt crawford</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-10329</link>
		<dc:creator>walt crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-10329</guid>
		<description>Genocide is certainly a coldblooded form of population control, as it aims to eliminate one whole chunk of the population. (Bioengineered plagues and nuclear warfare could also be classed under population control, I suppose...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Genocide is certainly a coldblooded form of population control, as it aims to eliminate one whole chunk of the population. (Bioengineered plagues and nuclear warfare could also be classed under population control, I suppose&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-10312</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-10312</guid>
		<description>Kristina, it &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; easy to pick on our systems although, as you say, these things just jump out at you. One does not have to go looking.

Your example is pretty macabre but I&#039;m guessing it makes some sense. There have been cultures that practiced infanticide--generally determined by lack of resources available to raise the child and keeping those already alive healthy. I don&#039;t remember many of these where the killing of the child was wanton so I imagine there would have been rites associated with it.

If this is anywhere close to correct I bet we&#039;ll find infanticide in a couple more places in the schedules for other aspects of it.

Irvin, yes, I play that game most every day or, at least, on those days I do monographs. That one is a pain.  I could write about problems with these tools every day. Doesn&#039;t mean they aren&#039;t powerful and useful, but it does put the lie to those who think cataloging is rule-based.

I was struggling with a book on armed conflicts and demography yesterday, and the relationship went both ways, although I couldn&#039;t even find a way to make it go either in any clear fashion.

We often do class broadly, but with 10 million volumes--I think about 3.5 million in our Voyager catalog--one can only class so broadly.

Another problem for us is that we have a fairly hard limit of 11 digits in our DDC #s.  So, even if I can get all aspects of the subject matter covered in the class # it is quite likely I have to cut it out. 

Yesterday I had a book on relations between African-Americans and Afro-Caribbeans in New York city. The best I could do for a class # was African-Americans in NY (state). Broke my little anal heart, it did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristina, it <em>is</em> easy to pick on our systems although, as you say, these things just jump out at you. One does not have to go looking.</p>
<p>Your example is pretty macabre but I&#8217;m guessing it makes some sense. There have been cultures that practiced infanticide&#8211;generally determined by lack of resources available to raise the child and keeping those already alive healthy. I don&#8217;t remember many of these where the killing of the child was wanton so I imagine there would have been rites associated with it.</p>
<p>If this is anywhere close to correct I bet we&#8217;ll find infanticide in a couple more places in the schedules for other aspects of it.</p>
<p>Irvin, yes, I play that game most every day or, at least, on those days I do monographs. That one is a pain.  I could write about problems with these tools every day. Doesn&#8217;t mean they aren&#8217;t powerful and useful, but it does put the lie to those who think cataloging is rule-based.</p>
<p>I was struggling with a book on armed conflicts and demography yesterday, and the relationship went both ways, although I couldn&#8217;t even find a way to make it go either in any clear fashion.</p>
<p>We often do class broadly, but with 10 million volumes&#8211;I think about 3.5 million in our Voyager catalog&#8211;one can only class so broadly.</p>
<p>Another problem for us is that we have a fairly hard limit of 11 digits in our DDC #s.  So, even if I can get all aspects of the subject matter covered in the class # it is quite likely I have to cut it out. </p>
<p>Yesterday I had a book on relations between African-Americans and Afro-Caribbeans in New York city. The best I could do for a class # was African-Americans in NY (state). Broke my little anal heart, it did.</p>
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		<title>By: Irvin</title>
		<link>http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/comment-page-1/#comment-10308</link>
		<dc:creator>Irvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 11:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marklindner.info/blog/2007/11/06/its-a-metaphor-if-you-know-what-i-mean-ddcs-fundamental-flaw/#comment-10308</guid>
		<description>Forgot to say...I like the metaphorical poem. Here are two more in return:

Won’t you come and see
loneliness? Just one leaf
from the kiri tree.

—Basho

l(a

le
af
fa

ll

s)
one
l

iness

- ee cummings

http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/Welch4.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgot to say&#8230;I like the metaphorical poem. Here are two more in return:</p>
<p>Won’t you come and see<br />
loneliness? Just one leaf<br />
from the kiri tree.</p>
<p>—Basho</p>
<p>l(a</p>
<p>le<br />
af<br />
fa</p>
<p>ll</p>
<p>s)<br />
one<br />
l</p>
<p>iness</p>
<p>- ee cummings</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/Welch4.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/Welch4.htm</a></p>
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